I think, and I'm sure that I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, that I'm safe in assuming most people believe in Heaven. That is most people who believe in God in one form or another. I'm obviously not included atheists in this.
But what about Hell? I posted a couple passages earlier that got lost in the whole Revelation question.
They were:
Revelation 20:15 "Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the pool of fire." Also, 21:8 "But as for cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
This to me sounds like Hell. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
13 comments:
I'm an athiest, and happily so. But I was reared as a fundamentist Christian and have read the Bible a lot. If the church doors were open, then Mama had me in that church.
I think that it is a mistake to give so much weight to the book of Revelations. It's a very difficult book to understand and it is not necessary to understand it. If you are a believer, then all you need to know is contained in all the other books. Your belief and your deeds will save you, if in fact, such a thing as salvation exists.
Why struggle to understand Revelations? Did Jesus tell you that you need to understand? I don't think so. He said believe.
Why struggle to understand Revelations? Did Jesus tell you that you need to understand? I don't think so. He said believe.
Good point. I guess that I'm just interested in what others think. (To include athiests, especially you, check on what you think every day. ;) ) I do believe, I'm just not sure which religion it closer to what I believe. Although, maybe I'm overthinking that too.
Hell.... isn't that where I get up and go to every morning???? :) I never really thought about that. Something else for me to think about. My brain is not happy about all the thinking it has had to do lately! :) (NOT A SINGLE COMMENT MARY!)
Tan Lucy, it dawned on me last night while I was making dinner that you teach Sunday School. How does that co-exist with being an athiest?
And yes, apparently you've made such an impression on me that I think about you while I'm cooking. Don't worry, the cooking doesn't happen often. :)
Becky - mmmmfffm mmmmfffm mmmm (picture me with my hand over my mouth)
Ok Mary, I should have read this BEFORE lunch! grrrr. I am getting the impression that there are alot of people that just "don't get it" out there. My brain is feeling better about this. :)
I have to admit that I am tired and need to re-read that, however, the one thing that my mind picked up on is whether God would allow a hell or not. The God of the Old Testament killed many women and children who did not believe in Him in many battles with the Israelites. Innocent did suffer, why wouldn't the unfaithful?
Now Mary, I was just starting to feel better after reading that and you had to go and make your comment! I need to think about this. I'm not fully awake just yet.
Mary, It is not necessary to believe in the God part of the bible to teach GOOD.
The Bible does have many good lessons in it. I believe that we should treat others as we would be treated. That's the most important lesson in the Bible, other than "believe in God." And all of the parables have a good lesson in them. I cannot believe. You either feel that in your heart, or you don't. Consider yourself lucky to believe. I just cannot.
I do not try to persuade others to believe, nor do I ever try to dissuade them from believing.
At any rate, I am a Unitarian Universalist. We don't all believe exactly the same thing. We believe that there are many paths to the holy.
Last year I took my church school class to two Catholic Masses, an African-American Christian Church, and a Jewish Synagogue. We also had Mormans, and then an American Indian come to our church to talk to the class about those varying views. I believe in exposing children to different ideas so that they might select their own spiritual path.
Above all else, we teach tolerance.
Thank you for explaining that. It sounds like your class is extremely informative. I like the idea of showing children different ideas.
I know people who plan on just letting their kids decide what they want to believe in, but they aren't providing them with any viewpoints at all, so I'm not sure how that's going to work until the kids are old enough to search on their own.
Tolerance is definitely an important lesson, religion or no.
If tolerance is the most important over riding virtue, then you would also need to tolerate the opinion that there is an absolute right and wrong. You would need to tolerate the opinion that not all or many paths can lead to God. You would need to tolerate that there is only one way. You would need to accept Jesus's statemnt of being the only way.
Tolerance sort of falls apart there, doesn't it?
From the American Heritage dictionary the definition of tolerance is "Official recognition of the rights of individuals and groups to hold dissenting opinions, especially on religion."
Just thought I'd leave that since it seems you're a little lacking.
I don't think that you have to agree with or accept anything to tolerate it.
Thank you for supporting my point.
your comment "of which you are lacking" shows your lack of tolerance for
my viewpoint. This is one of the hallmarks of moral relativism. A moral
relativist has tolerance for everything except that which disagrees with
them.
Consider this passage
"And Jesus said unto His disciples, "Go into all the world, teaching men
to live anyway they want, and urging each to find his or her own path to
God. Let not anyone of you make someone feel inferior or victimized
because of their beliefs. Above all, be tolerant. Verily verily I say
unto you that what you believe and how you live do not matter, so long as
you are sincere"
Leaving that place, Jesus led His disciples to the upper room where they
broke bread. He addressed them saying "I am one of the ways, one of the
truths, and just one posible life. If you a basically a good person,
you're OK in my book. And if you choose to come to the Father (or Mother
if you prefer) through Me, that's cool. Now go forth to live according
to what ever feels good to you"
not im my Bible, is this in your's?
If you are ready to face the self contradicting view point that moral
relavitism offers (tolerance being the cornerstone), I suggest you pick
up "Be Intolerant" by Ryan Dobson (son of James Dobson, focus on the
family).
Actually, my comment was more to point out that you don't have to believe something to tolerate it. However, the reason that I had said you were lacking tolerance was because when I read your previous comment it sounded argumentative to me, although now that I have reread it, I'm really not sure why I thought that so I am sorry for the comment.
And thanks for the book suggestion, but I have a pile of books regarding religion, not to mention a few other varied books, that are waiting to be read. I don't think that I'm going to be lacking in material for a couple of years.
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